DAVID: You don't know and neither do I, but I recognize the need for a planning mind and you don't. That gulf will never narrow. > > dhw; As usual, you conflate two planning minds. One is the planning minds of organisms themselves, which you refuse to consider as an alternative to divine preprogramming and/or dabbling. That is the substance of our entire discussion on how evolution works, and that is the gulf between us.-Those organisms are planned to look as if they have a degree of mentation.-> dhw: At all times I have allowed for the possibility of a planning mind creating the planning minds of the organisms, and as an agnostic I remain open-minded on that question.-I recognize your agnosticism and I know your mind is open and evenhanded.