I too find a false dilemma here, although in my case I take a more Buddhist view: There is also the possibility that our world simply *IS* with no distinction needed as to whether or not it was or wasn't created. We could be projecting a prime cause because we want there to be. (I'm not refuting the big bang here, only that IT wasn't the true beginning of the universe, if one even exists.) -Right. Alan Guth reminds us in his book, The Inflationary Universe, that we have no idea WHAT went bang! > > This goes back to Seth Lloyd's book... at the minimum I can safely make the claim that the universe needed no creator up until the point where abiogenesis is needed. -I don't think you are that safe. We can still argue that the Big Bang was a caused event by a diety. We have no proof the BB was spontaneous. All we can know is that it occurred. the rest is guesswork.