dhw: In contrast to yourself, he attributes the design of the nest to the intelligent bird, not to God. This is a sort of halfway point between human design (the garrotte) and the bacterial flagellum, for the design of which we do not know the intelligent agent (unlike the bird's nest). I accept, and have always accepted, his and your argument that life forms fulfil the criteria for design. That is one reason why I am not an atheist. However, that does not fill the many gaps in the hypothesis of the unknowable mind described above.-DAVID: We can presume the birds did the inventing, but God could have helped. At least we agree on the design issue.-We have always agreed on the design issue. Where we disagree is on your insistence that only God and humans can design things, though “could have helped” suggests a slight softening in your approach! “No, no, not on the left,” said God to the weaverbird. “Put it on the right, or you'll upset the balance of nature."