dhw: I must confess I am always surprised by the confidence of such beliefs, and so I'm afraid there was a gentle irony in my remark. My apologies. Perhaps the irony would have been clearer if I had said: "I'd best leave the two of you to fight over what God might have known and not known, since you both seem to know more about God's mind than I do."-I wish we knew God as well as you imply. Tony reaches Him through the Bible, and I infer His activities through science, two very different approaches.