However, it is indeed the hype that has put me off, and "existing apes have a human ancestor" are his own words, not someone else's. Sadly, I can't get the article you've referred to. I only get "Article not found" ... and I have far too much respect for you to push this issue. If you think the original paper makes a good case for "the start of a line that leads to upright humans", that's fine with me. After all, there has to be such a line if we believe in common descent.-See my last entry correcting the links posted a few minutes ago. You will see his reasoning, especially in his introduction on page 2.-http://www.uprightape.net/Homeotic_Evolution.pdf or google all of this next line:-PLoS ONE | www.plosone.org October 2007 | Issue 10 | e1019