That is entirely my point. > > Without a constant influx of energy, it isn't possible for us to maintain our state. (Depending how you define state.) > > The second law is *why* we need to always consume [i]more [/i]energy. We sort of had this discussion a few months ago when I talked directly about the 2nd law. > > This isn't "working with" the 2nd law, it's working "within" the 2nd law.-We are talking past each other. We are both saying the same things.