romansh: Then there is no reason assume any magical deities. All we have to assume is a Krauss like nothing. No magic necessary, no first cause necessary. No imaginary 'nothing' necessary. Just the nothing we experience.-Krauss-like nothing is not nothing. He assumes a quantum space with potentialities. That is not nothing. > > > > Romansh: Having said that ... I don't believe that humans are responsible for first causes. > > > > David: Humans are first causes of processes they create. Cause and effect exists. > > romansh; I would argue this is plain wrong! > > I did not assemble myself. Cause and effect did.-You are not interpreting what I said correctly. Of course cause and effect created me and you. Humans can be causes of the processes they create. Then you obviously accept cause and effect!