Have you read Shapiro's book? No > Have you watched Noble's video? Yes a couple of times on other fora. And so what? > I think you are unwilling to review new material and opinion. Comments like this make your thoughts increasingly immaterial David.-> Coyne wasn't included in the Altenburg 16, was he?-And should he be? >> The Altenberg 16 controversy was spurred by a science meeting at the Konrad Lorenz Institute in 2008 which proposed an extended evolutionary synthesis that was misrepresented by creationists and similar types to attack evolutionary biology. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Altenberg_16_controversy