Davies: So all you've done is shift the problem of existence up from the level of universe to the level of multiverse. But you haven't explained it."[/i] > > TONY: He makes many of the same points we all have made, though I cringe that he blatantly refuses to follow them through to their logical conclusion that our universe was designed. > > DAVID: As a highly respected scientist he has to couch his ideas carefully. he has alays come across as a deist to me.-> dhw: We can never know the origin of the universe for the simple reason that we can never know what existed before whatever cause we opt for. But Davies, you and I are stubborn and imaginative and indefatigable and idealistic, because we still keep trying to grasp the ungraspable. Aren't we humans wonderful?-Yes, we are so wonderful we are the obvious pinnacle of evolution.