dhw: I conclude that whether God exists or not is unknowable, and I am trapped with that knowledge. You think you can go further. So does Tony. So do George and Dawkins. And so the paradox is that in our approach to the unknowable, you go one stage further than me with your conclusion, but I go one stage further than you with my speculation, because I do not stop at the unknowable. As Tony so rightly says, I am stubborn!-You are right. Tony and I and millions others conclude that the unknowable can be conceived and accepted. You cannot. But you are not one stage further than we are. Whether chance was the mechanism is also unknowable. It is just one of the two unknowable possibilities. Take your choice or fence sit.