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Message:

> > [b]The smelly hoatzin[/b]
> > 
> > dhw: [..] [i]Why do you think your God designed this weird bird?[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Usual answer: part of a necessary ecosystem.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: [i]Usual question: necessary for what? For our existence and food? Your own comment was “a best example of an inefficient, cumbersome evolutionary system”. It could hardly be inefficient and cumbersome if the stinky bird was necessary![/i]
> > 
> > You have dropped the subject, no doubt because it once again demonstrates the absurdity of your theory of evolution.
> 
> All ecosystems form the fabric of life on Earth. They are all closely integrated, and all are necessary to maintain this fabric. You are seemingly blind to this principle.
> >  
> > [b]Immune responses[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Immunity through the production of antibodies is a singular process of choosing a part of the enemy to which a killer protein is added.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: And each new enemy requires the production of a new antibody, which often occurs after large numbers of deaths, and in some cases has to be ongoing, since the enemy can also counter antibodies by mutating itself. How does any of this prove that your God organizes every success (and failure), as opposed to the cells themselves doing the job?
> 
> The cells run on a God design. Yes, God is responsible for success and failure as discussed in our Theodicy thread.
> > 
> > [b]Evolution and intelligence[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]All animals think about survival but not conceptually.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: [i]What does that mean? One day, Pete the possum sees Willy wolf sniff a dead possum and walk away, so next time he sees the wolf, he plays dead. Is this less likely than your God popping down to Planet Earth in order to teach the possum how to play dead?[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Your just-so story requires conceptual thought by the possum!![/i]
> > 
> > dhw: I don’t care what kind of thought it is. Did the possum work it out for himself, or did your God pop in to give him lessons?
> 
> I have assumed God did it.
> > 
> > [b]Mind and cosmos[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Consciousness requires a brain of neurons.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw:[i] This is even more confusing, but very illuminating, since you keep referring to the consciousness of NDE patients who have lost the use of their brain of neurons. But I was responding to your theory that we use God’s consciousness to form our own, as opposed to the theory that your God may have given us part of his consciousness[/i]. […]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]The neurons act a a receiver of consciousness[/i] (Van Lommel)
> > 
> > dhw: So consciousness requires a brain of neurons except when it doesn’t (NDEs), and “we use God’s consciousness structure to form our consciousness”, but “we” only provide a receiver. What part of “us” uses God’s consciousness? I’m still very confused. Why is not possible that your God simply imbued our cells with autonomous consciousness?
> 
> Discussing at the level of NDE's consciousness can be detached from a non-functioning brain and yet function, as if consciousness is a separate entity the brain receives. Clear?