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Message:

> > [b]Theodicy[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Humans and bacteria create evil.[/i]
> > 
> > So[b] a possible answer to the problem set by theodicy[/b] is that evil is not an unintended by-product or side-effect of your cumbersome, messy, inefficient God’s good works, but instead he deliberately gave freedom of action to his creatures. We humans invented the concepts of “good” and “evil” to mean whatever was good or bad for us, but all creatures simply do what they think is good for them in the great free-for-all of life’s history. However, you prefer to believe that evil is due to your God’s incompetence. 
> 
> Evil has nothing to do with God's incompetence. How did you conclude that? God is not incompetent. Evil is the result, as you state, of freedom of action or free will.
> > 
> > [b]Evolution[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]I obviously have no answer as to why God used evolution to evolve us. I am convinced we ere His purpose.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: [i]It is only cumbersome and inefficient if you impose a purpose on it and then insist that your God personally designed but had to cull 99.9 out of 100 species that were irrelevant to his purpose! But you would rather ridicule your God than open your mind to any alternative theory, because as you once confessed: “[b]I first choose a form of God I wish to believe in. The rest follows[/b].”[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Teleology is something you must exclude from evolution because it evokes a designer.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: You never cease to try and divert attention from your ridicule of your God by pretending that my alternatives are atheistic. This whole discussion concerns your God’s possible nature, purpose and method. If he exists, he must have had a purpose for creating life. The one you impose on him makes him look like a messy, inefficient designer. Elsewhere, however, you have expressed your belief that he would not have created life if he had not enjoyed doing so and had not been interested in his own creations. That will provide you with your “teleology”. You also proposed that he might have created us because he wanted us to recognize and worship him. More teleology. If he exists, I have no objections to your proposals. It’s you who oppose them and prefer to ridicule him.
> 
> Ridicule of God is your invention. That He uses cumbersome evolution is His choice to achieve Human intelligence actually shows that it works.
> > 
> > [b]Cellular intelligence[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Intelligent actions can come from intelligent instructions.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: You agreed that the “code” might create autonomous intelligence, but you defined that as meaning “automatic, no thought involved”. The fact that intelligent actions can come from intelligent instructions does not mean that when you accepted my description of the autonomous, information-processing, communicating, decision-making, instruction-giving cell, I actually meant an automatic, non-processing, non-communicating, non-decision-making, non-instruction-giving cell!
> 
> At all times you think cells can think. Nonsense.
> > 
> > [b]Fish use tools[/b]
> > 
> > QUOTE: [i]"Scientists have debunked the belief that using tools is unique to mammals and birds,….[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: One of these days, perhaps some people will also realize that long ago, some scientists debunked the belief that micro-organisms right down to single cells cannot be intelligent.  All that is needed is to rid oneself of what Shapiro calls “large organisms chauvinism”.
> 
> Fish have brains, therefore they think.