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> > > > dhw: [i]With my theist hat on, I also allow for sporadic divine dabbling. But David believes all innovations were preprogrammed or dabbled IN ADVANCE of environmental change. His pre-whales were given fins before they entered the water. Therefore either David's God has a crystal ball or he organizes EVERY environmental change.[/i]
> > > > 
> > > > DAVID: [i]My view is God developed seal-, sea lion-. and walrus-like forms of the whale series where the animals ere comfortable in both environments. Nothing else feels logical.[/i]
> > > > 
> > > > dhw:We know these animals are comfortable in both environments. All you’re saying is that your God did it. We are talking about your belief that your God changed organisms BEFORE the environment changed (which requires a crystal ball or total control of the environment) – as opposed to the suggestion that environmental change triggered organismal change.
> > > 
> > >David: Why does an all-powerful, all-knowing God need a crystal ball? 
> > > > 
> > > > DAVID: [i]And why not have an unlimited God in what He knows and what He plans. You view Him as with human limitations![/i]
> > > > 
> > > > dhw: Another of your straw men. In the past you have imposed limitations on him with your uncertainty as to the degree of control he exerts over the environment. The hypothesis I have proposed imposes no limitations whatsoever. Creating an evolutionary free-for-all is no different from creating free will – that would have been his choice, though of course he could intervene if he wished to.
> > > 
> > >David: Not a straw man. you're the one who had Him looking into a crystal ball.  And  you have Him intervening or not intervening. [b][i]Either He does what He wants or He can't[/i][/b]
> > 
> > Tony: Well.....I think that is also putting a human way of thinking that I don't subscribe to. I think he does what he wants because he knows and wants whats best. I just don't think that [i]our[/i] idea of what's best matches [i]his[/i] idea of what's best, which causes us to question his motives and methods. 
> > 
> > I try to take the approach of [i]assuming[/i] that his approach is best, and then try to understand [i]why[/i] his approach is best.
> 
> I'm on your side