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> [i]dhw: Each human birth is a beginning, but nobody would dream of saying nothing preceded it. The origin of life is a beginning, and we&apos;re still searching for what led to it. Why, then, should anyone assume that nothing preceded the birth of our universe?[/i]-What I am saying is that the primordial state of the universe was a kind of nothingness - a void. Nothing could have preceded it because there was no time at that time! There was nothing for the nothingness to come from.-[i]dhw: As I see it, there is simply no escaping the chain of cause and effect.[/i]-Why is there no escaping it? Only be cause it is one of your axioms.-[i]dhw: I see no reason why anyone should assume that throughout eternity until 14 billion years ago, energy stayed at zero.[/i] -Here again you are unable to escape from your idea of Newtonian unending time.-[i]dhw: Secondly, I do not see how one can speak of "always" or "eternal energy" without linking it to time. "Always" entails reaching back into an endless past. [/i]-It is not me that is saying this.