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> [dhw] [i]Nothing ever stays the same, and so the only constant is change. If there is a god, it is a form of energy that transmutes itself into ever changing combinations of matter... This should not be taken as an argument either for or against design.[/i]   BBELLA: [i]Yes, dhw, what you wrote above does sum up to a tee what I was saying. As for an eternal designer: A Conscious Self Aware Being that calls itself God or I Am, as the scriptures convey, that designed all that now IS from the beginning? I don&apos;t know. But I do completely understand how and why (the ONE thing that does not change: the changelessness of change) could be worshiped and called God. When you observe the ability of our consciousness itself to effect the ever changing fabric of All That IS, it gives a clue (to me) or lends itself to the idea that consciousness itself has power over the changing state of matter. It&apos;s like, if something is observed for very long, more times than not it will eventually appear to have some form of consciousness. It is understandable that we then conclude consciousness was there before we observed it. But, it is also possible to conclude that by the very act of our concluding (belief) we effected the very fabric of what we observed and may have "awakened" consciousness within it. Or, it may appear conscious because we look thru conscious eyes and conclude it has consciousness, altho it may not. I don&apos;t know which. I remain open.[/i]-Thank you for these very illuminating observations. I can only nod approvingly at the sound of so many nails being hit on their heads! The plain fact is that none of us know the origin of consciousness, whether consciousness exists independently of those forms we are familiar with, or the extent to which our own consciousness imposes or influences the patterns we observe. I have tried to develop your admirably balanced line of thought in my response to Tony.