Post reply

Reply to the message by David Turell

Name:

E-mail: (optional, won't be displayed directly)

Leave this field empty:

Homepage: (optional)

Leave this field empty:

Location: (optional)

Remember me (cookie)

Category:

Subject:

Formatting help

skip to input

format text bold: [b]bold text[/b]
format text italic: [i]italic text[/i]
insert hyperlink: [link=http://example.com/]link text[/link] / [link]http://example.com/[/link]
set text color: [color=#rgb]colored text[/color]
font size: [size=small]small text[/size]; [size=large]large text[/size]
insert list: [list][*]list item[/list]
insert image: [img]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; left: [img=left]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; right: [img=right]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; thumbnail: [img=thumbnail]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; thumbnail left: [img=thumbnail-left]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; thumbnail right: [img=thumbnail-right]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]

:-)
;-)
:-P
:-D
:-|
:-(

Message:

> >  > Matt: [color=#f00]I&apos;m making no such assumption.  I&apos;m saying plainly that the universe sprang into being, and that because the universe has a finite mass, it has a finite energy, and because of the existence of dark energy and black holes the amount of available energy to the cosmos is decreasing over time as the universe expands and cools.  Nothing here is controversial.[/color]-I thought the laws of conservation of energy dictated that the universe would always contain the same amount of energy, but get colder as it expands, with less energy for the spacial size increase. I.E. heat death.- >  > Matt: What you&apos;re saying here (to me) more like what dhw was after with his "eternal energy."  I think the "something from nothing" dilemma is a false dilemma based on millions of years of evolution training us that all things have causes.  If God exists, then God came from nothing as well:  As I stated years ago, all you&apos;re doing is shifting the goalpost.  Assume God is real, before the universe.  Then, God IS the universe.  Then God initiates the big bang:  The *universe* has now shifted to "The universe + God" which is still... the Universe.  All you&apos;ve done is applied an artificial separation between the Universe and God.  You&apos;re still ultimately arguing for a static universe.  (If God is eternal so is the universe.)-Unless He always existed and created the universe from within Him. Panentheism.   >  > Matt; In Agrippan Skepticism, since this question can be shown to be never-terminating, it isn&apos;t a valid question to begin with.   >  > We&apos;ve gone &apos;round on this before, to put it simply, existence exists.-Yes, something is eternal. I have my choice, what is yours?