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> >  > dhw:Yes, it&apos;s a mystery, whichever way you look at it. How can anyone believe that the intricacies of life assembled themselves without any guidance? How can anyone believe that, before the arrival of our universe, the ALL THAT IS consisted of a single, infinite, eternal self-aware mind? It&apos;s enough to drive you to agnosticism.-It drove St. thomas to believe in God. The intricacies of life and the organization of the universe follow laws and plans. Thopse laws and plans had to come from somewhere. >  > DAVID: [i]One problem with your reply is lack of a source for information. Where does the information originate that intelligence then uses? ....It means the initial cells were more complete and more complex than origin of life theories generally allow for.[/i] >  > dhw:Yes again, the cell has to be sentient as well as intelligent. I&apos;m glad you now recognize that individual cells need to have both attributes. But once more you are asking me to explain what no-one on this Earth can explain ... the origin of life and of consciousness.-You are again avoiding the question, which is deeper than OOL or consciousness. Where does the information come from that OOL and consciousness use? Information, as a concept, requires a source that supplies information, especially when (not if) the first living cells, complex as they had to be, operated by using that information. Takes us back to Thomism.- > dhw:your God having to load the first few cells with billions of programmes to be handed down over billions of years to billions of different organisms. Those that were not preprogrammed had to be specially created. I agree that the initial cells had to be complex, but do you really believe they were THAT complex?-Most of the recent discussions of the form of early life make that assumption. The simplest single-celled forms now living are highly complex. No one can think of a lesser complex form that could remain as living.