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> dhw: [i]This is why I keep badgering away at the idea that if innovations were not the result of detailed preprogramming or interference by your God (which you clearly reject as well), they can only have come about through some form of inventive intelligence within the cell/cell communities. Are the two of us beginning to converge? I don&apos;t NEED this analogy for my wider panpsychic proposal, but it would be useful and in any case, I find it quite intriguing.[/i]-DAVID: [i]Don&apos;t get too excited. Remember I have the theory that we will find a system in DNA to push or guide complexification. And you are still stuck with the issue that all basic change must be in the DNA of germ cells. Liver cells don&apos;t toot their own trumpet.[/i]-I am excited. It makes no difference whatsoever to my proposal if the vital mechanism is in the DNA of germ cells. The whole point is that whatever the mechanism consists of, and whatever cells it resides in, it has to be responsible for innovation, and without billions of years of preprogramming, or direct intervention by a conscious creator, it has to take its own decisions.