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Message:

> > [b]Evolving a universe for life[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]God ran evolution. He is responsible for all its warts.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: [i]So why did you say he was not to blame? Please stop contradicting yourself![/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]No blame. He produced us by His system.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw; The “warts” are the 99% of mistakes, failed experiments, wrong choices for which he is responsible, but you do not blame him for the 99% of mistakes, failed experiments, wrong choices for which he is responsible! If he exists, then his “system” produced us and everything else that exists and existed, but I have offered you three interpretations of evolution’s history which remove your humiliating view of your God as an incompetent blunderer.
> 
> Isn't it obvious evolution is a convoluted series of experimental forms? Your three theories result in God being a wimp, a secondhand designer who experiments and changes His mind or course as belowe frpm prevously:
> > 
> > DAVID:[i] Your not-by-God theories have free-for-alls in evolutionary advances, sudden new ideas of purpose, and experimentation as an advance. A real God knows exactly where He is headed and does it directly.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: A God who blunders along, with 99% of his work consisting of mistakes which have no connection with his one and only purpose, does not fit in with the image of a God who knows where he is headed and does it directly. As we are discussing the nature, purpose and methods of a possible God, all my theories are "by God", but none of them depict him as an incompetent blunderer.
> 
> You have a totally blundering idea of my God, twisted by your preconceptions of how to think about God as theistic philosophers do. Why don't you investigate their thinking?
> >
> > dhw: [i]None of my versions have him changing course. Why is it “wimpy” to try different methods or to set out to discover/invent new things, but not “wimpy” to make countless blunders and rely on luck to help you reach your goal?[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]I've told you God does not need luck to make designs for changed environment. Another of your distortions.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: I’ve told you that your God’s inability to control environmental changes forces him into designing the life forms which you call mistakes. No, he does not need luck to make his faulty designs. He needs luck to provide him with conditions that will enable him to design the only life forms he wants to design. Another of your distortions.
> 
> No luck. God can design for any set of conditions as necessary. How can you contradict
> His success, us?
> >> 
> > DAVID: [i]I'm referring to the powerful God of the OT. He is my God.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: The OT does not present us with a powerful God who has no control over the environment, and makes millions of mistakes on his way to evolving multiple homos and hominins which eventually lead to Adam and Eve.
> 
> No, it has a very powerful God who can do anything He wants. I've brought Him into modern knowledge and applied Him to it.