Post reply

Reply to the message by dhw

Name:

E-mail: (optional, won't be displayed directly)

Leave this field empty:

Homepage: (optional)

Leave this field empty:

Location: (optional)

Remember me (cookie)

Category:

Subject:

Formatting help

skip to input

format text bold: [b]bold text[/b]
format text italic: [i]italic text[/i]
insert hyperlink: [link=http://example.com/]link text[/link] / [link]http://example.com/[/link]
set text color: [color=#rgb]colored text[/color]
font size: [size=small]small text[/size]; [size=large]large text[/size]
insert list: [list][*]list item[/list]
insert image: [img]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; left: [img=left]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; right: [img=right]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; thumbnail: [img=thumbnail]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; thumbnail left: [img=thumbnail-left]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]; thumbnail right: [img=thumbnail-right]http://example.com/image.jpg[/img]

:-)
;-)
:-P
:-D
:-|
:-(

Message:

> QUOTE:  [i]None of the inactivating mutations that would have suggested a common aquatic ancestry are shared between these two lineages[/i].”
> 
> dhw: [i]I don’t understand. They had the SAME genes, and these were inactivated. How does that come to mean they didn’t originally share the same genes?[/i]
> 
> DAVID: [i]The point is the deactivating genes differ.[/i]
> 
> I quote: … [i]"those 10 genes were silenced in whales some 16 million years before the [b]same [/b]genes were inactivated in hippos!"[/i]
> 
> DAVID: [i]That means convergent evolution occurred, which I remind you is considered a proof of a designing God.[/i]
> 
> I don’t see why. It is common sense that if organisms are faced with similar problems, they will find similar solutions! But it is fair to argue that the mechanisms for ALL of life and evolution are so complex that they support the case for design.
> 
> QUOTE: [i]"Another issue these research findings unveil is the waiting time problem highlighted by scientists within the Intelligent Design movement. As a team of theorists from Cornell University pointed out some years ago, just two coordinated mutations in such long-lived creatures as hippos and whales would take 200 million years to occur [b]by chance[/b][/i][/i].”
> 
> dhw: [i]We have long since agreed that in any context, the complexities of speciation by random mutations is unlikely, and this is where Shapiro’s theory of intelligent cells as the drivers of evolutionary change comes into its own. The time factor simply disappears, just as it does with the designer God theory (and of course ID-ers can attribute the invention of cellular intelligence to God). Meanwhile, if God did it, why did it take him so long? And if we follow David’s theory, why was the inactivation of 10 genes 16 million years apart an absolute requirement for the design of sapiens and our food supply?[/i]
> 
> DAVID: [i]The quote refers to the 'timing' problem, in that study of mutations taking time indicate it would take much longer unless God designed. [/i]
> 
> The reference is to chance (now bolded). Shapiro’s intelligent cells do not operate by chance.
> 
> DAVID: [i]As for requirement, until you recognize the point that if it is here God did it for His own reasons, you will not understand my reasoning about God.[/i]
> 
> I understand perfectly well that if your God exists, he will have his own reasons. I simply find the single reason you impose on him – namely, that every extinct and extant evolutionary change, ecosystem, lifestyle, strategy, natural wonder etc was required for the design of sapiens plus food – to be totally unreasonable.