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Message:

> > [b]Immune system[/b]
> > 
> > DAVID:[i] It is not purpose, it is the result of the life form He started which requires the constant intake of energy. That there are bad bugs has been discussed as the result of 'bad' bugs just being in the wrong place.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: I’d have thought your all-knowing, all-powerful, all-purposeful God would only create what he wanted to create. Are you now saying the “constant war to survive by eating” was NOT part of his plan? 
> 
> Don't understand the question. Life requires energy intake constantly.  
> >  
> > DAVID: [i]When I ask about what your god might do, I find is is unsure of himself, experiments and set up entertainment that he can enjoy. That is no sort of supposed god I can be interested in knowing or recognizing.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: I know you’re not interested in any theory different from your own, and therefore try to denigrate alternatives by using derogatory language. The concept of a God who enjoys creating, is interested in his own creations (your guesses as well as mine), maybe likes to experiment and to open himself up to new ideas, seems to me to be perfectly feasible and not at all belittling.
> 
> You still don't see how you present a human god, not like anyone theologians describe
> >  
> > [b]Evolution of consciousness[/b]
> > 
> > QUOTE: [i] They argue that minds of a sort have existed since the first archaea colonized the planet, billions of years ago.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: Another boost for the theory of cellular intelligence, but either the reviewer or the authors then seem to get into a muddle.
> > 
> > QUOTE: [i]They state that insects have no consciousness, when there is good reason to suppose that bees, at least, have many of the mental attributes associated with consciousness, such as foresight and the ability to imagine. Even bacteria are not the simple automata portrayed here; other researchers describe bacterial behaviours in the language of cognition.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: If minds have existed since the first archaea, why would the authors deny the existence of insect and bacteria minds? Something has gone wrong here, or have I misread it?
> 
> No, the reviewer infers his disagreement with the study.
> > 
> > QUOTE: "[i]The narrative is enjoyable and illuminating, but bbb[b]it is flawed by a failure to separate fact from speculation.[/b][/i] (DAVID’s bold)
> > 
> > dhw: Yes, that is often the fault with all parties in these discussions. 
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Seeing something that seems to act intelligently doesn't mean it is intrinsically intelligent in and of itself. It may dimply be following instructions it has been given. Thermostats and robots are just that, looking as if they take intelligent actions and we understand how they do it by following built-in designed algorithms. So can cells and simple one-celled animals. To assume actual intelligence exists is a very thin analysis.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: Artificial intelligence is just that. And natural intelligence is natural intelligence, but you want to make it into artificial intelligence by having your God insert algorithms into living material. Why not follow through the analogy: humans use their natural intelligence to create artificial intelligence, just as your God may have used his natural intelligence to create our natural intelligence, as well as the natural intelligence of the cells of which all life forms are composed?
> 
> You simply want to believe things that act intelligently are intelligent. Just remember thermostats.