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> DAVID: [i]When I analyze what sort of person would plan as you have your God planning it has all the aspects of someone expressing human desires and needs, all previously pointed out.[/i]
> 
> dhw: [i]I see no reason why experimentation or progressive learning and coming up with new ideas should be dismissed as a human “desire or need”, but it opposes your view of a God who is all-knowing and always in control.[/i]
> 
> DAVID: [i]And that is a God you refuse to recognize as if impossible. Why?[/i]
> 
> Once again, you raise a point, I answer it, and so you change the subject! Two of my theories do NOT express human desires or needs, as you claimed above. Your view of a God who is all-knowing and always in control, doesn’t fit in with your own theory that he had only one purpose (humans and their food) but proceeded to design countless life forms and foods and natural wonders etc. that had no connection with humans. This problem is resolved if we adopt the experimentation or learning theory. Alternatively, the problem is solved if his aim was not exclusively to produce humans and their food, but was to create a free-for-all, which would be more interesting for him to watch than a puppet show. An all-powerful God who decides to give his creations the freedom to do their own thing is exemplified by the concept of human free will. He can give up control if he wants to, and he can create surprises for himself if he wants to. If he invented football, he would spoil the concept if he already knew every result before the match was played. 
>  
> dhw: [i]You have complained that the latter proposal – all life was in preparation for humans etc. – is a distortion of your beliefs...[/i]
> 
> DAVID: [i]Explained fully as choosing to use evolution to create humans from bacteria. What distortion, except as you twist?[/i]
> 
> If he exists, he used evolution to create ALL life forms from bacteria (whether through individual design or through a free-for-all)! You accused me of distortion when I repeated your theory that humans plus food were his one and only purpose, but you keep repeating this theory!
>  
> dhw: [i]You and your fellow ID-ers use ALL the complexities of life to “prove God must exist”. “Endpoint” we may be, but that does not mean he individually designed etc., as bolded above. That is the “nitty-gritty” subject we are discussing.[/i]
> 
> DAVID:[i] Yes it does! I feel very comfortable with my ID crowd.[/i]
> 
> You have as usual ignored the “etc.”, which I didn’t want to repeat in full. You have told us that your ID crowd does not cover your theory that your God’s one and only purpose was to create humans plus food, and so he designed all the countless life forms and foods that had no connection with humans plus food.
> 
> The rest of this post simply repeats points already dealt with ad nauseam.