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Message:

> > DAVID: [i]I don't ignore your arguments, I reject them. You cannot wish away the fact that we had more cells when our brain appeared than we have now under much heavier use than was present then.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: I have not wished it away. That is what we call shrinkage, and I have explained it over and over again: when enhanced complexification took over from expansion, it proved so efficient that certain previously essential cells became redundant. Please stop ignoring my arguments.
> 
> I don't accept your arguments. The excess cells were lightly used and once complexification organized very complex networks which handled heavy use, they were unnecessary and discarded.
> 
> > dhw: [i]My proposal is that they[/i] [the new cells] [i]were NEEDED to fulfil a new requirement.[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]And I've agreed it is possible/reasonable light use of all the initial bigger brain happened.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: A crucial breakthrough. Your recently coined term “light use” is simply another way of describing stasis, when there are no new requirements and so the new cells perform the function that brought them into existence,... What do you disagree with?
> 
> Your whole concept. We had to learn to use our oversized brain, by adding huge new functions such as usable language with speech, more exact stone tool manufacture, leaving caves for structures like tents, and softening hides for clothing and more recently arithmetic, and other immaterial concepts. with shrinkage of the excess. The excess allowed us to tailor our own new big brains.
> 
> > DAVID: [i]I'll stay with my personal theology. God speciates, and you reject it. No changes.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: We are talking about our ancestors. Do you believe your God gave them the autonomous ability to invent new tools etc., as above, or do you think he programmed  or taught them how to do it 
> 
> Answered already. We learned to use our big brains ourselves over lots of time.
> > 
> > DAVID: […] [i]Only the hippocampus must expand as we learn to do new tricks/procedures with our brain and must add memory.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: [i]So we know that part of the modern brain can expand autonomously.[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]For the obvious reasons I've presented.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: Agreed. All expansions and complexifications must have reasons, as we know from the modern brain. So why would earlier brains NOT have complexified AND expanded in response to new requirements, as the modern brain does?
> 
> I think all past brains responded exactly as ours. God-given oversized at each stage and complexified a bit. Our brain built on the past shows what happened in the past. That limits our theories to the facts we have.
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]I understand your position and have granted the possibility of light use all over the first enlarged brain with cells to be shucked later, as free-willed humans learned to use their new big brain, supplied by God's speciation.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: In brief, you cannot find a single flaw in my proposal, but instead of explicitly accepting that God could have supplied the mechanism which gave the brains of our ancestors as well as ourselves the autonomous ability to complexify AND expand, you hide behind a massive generalization about species.
> 
> Yes, I agree likely older brains were oversized and complexified slightly with new use. God speciating is not a massive subterfuge, it is my belief God evolved us. What we know ab out our brain must be used in considering how the past brains worked. Some excess at each stage, to allow complexification tailoring for existing usages.