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Message:

> > DAVID: [i]Where does a first time mare mother et the intelligence to work with her colt or filly? Of course she has an implanted instinct. As a newborn herself she was handled properly by her mother, but learned nothing from it[/i].
> > 
> > dhw: What is the relevance of this comment to mine? I gave you the example of the parent predator using her intelligence, experience and observation to train the cubs so they can grasp the link between causes and effects (as in hunting), just as you do to train your dog and  horses and children. 
> 
> What gave the female  mother predator the instinct to care for her cubs? It is all by repetition, not abstract thought by mother and cubs.
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Stated that way because I cannot convince you that you are totally wrong about animals and concrete thought as their only thinking ability.[/i]
> > 
> > You still insist on using a term (“concrete thought”) which requires definition. I agree with the two definitions we discussed earlier: 1) concrete thinking has physical referents, and abstract thinking doesn’t; 2) concrete thinking concerns the particular, and abstract thinking concerns the universal. I regard the leaf and plant as physical, particular referents, unlike for instance the meaning of life and the existence of God, which are “universals” with no physical referents. And so I agree that animals only think concretely. If you insist that their ability to link physical effect with physical cause is abstract, I really don’t care. What matters is that I think they have this ability, and you don’t agree.  
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Why don't you do some independent research to see I am correct? I have Dr. Egnor, the neurosurgeon, agreeing with me.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw:  Read your own long list of natural wonders to gauge whether animals have the autonomous ability to survive by linking cause to effect. We have discussed the intelligence of organisms from bacteria to ants to corvids, as they solve problems which scientists set them. I don’t know how long Dr Egnor has spent studying animal behaviour, but if he is as convinced as you are that God had to preprogramme or personally instruct bees to bite leaves, and mother lions to teach their cubs how to hunt, and ants to build cities, and corvids to solve puzzles, and monarchs to fly to warmer climes, then so be it. But don't tell me that this is "correct". It's a matter of opinion.
> 
> Can you explain instincts?  My position remains they were implanted by God as the authors of 'Nature's IQ' posit. Concrete observations, without abstract recognition of the connections cannot lead by themselves to instinct