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Message:

> > DAVID: [i]It is amazing how widely different our interpretations turn out from the same information. I see God's hand in all of this amazing ability of organization by senseless molecules. Life is a symphony of molecular reactions following a framework of information provided initially by God. The ID site directed me to this new Talbott input, indicating a whole cadre of IDers think as I do.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: [i]But presumably NOT as Talbott does. I hope IDers will take his ideas more seriously than you do.[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID:[i] They approach Talbott as I do.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw:  So they reject his concept of design by an immanent creative power, do they, and opt for your “God did it” by direct design?
> 
> Intelligent design always implies a designer exists for direct design.
> 
> > DAVID: [i]ID loves to quote Talbott. We know his point of view. It is exactly like yours. We all know the intelligence of cellular activity and recognize the information it must follow. We simply interpret it differently, as you and I have for years. The scientists, who discovered 'how' evolution did it, discovered only the DNA chemical changes related to it. They do not know the 'how', nor do we. All we see is a relationship. All Talbott does is decry both ID and natural selection, implying we all must accept what we see without wondering about the real 'how' and never get to the 'why' the process even exists. [/i]
> > 
> > dhw: He asks for open-mindedness as regards the why, but – as in the list of quotes I offered yesterday – [b]he champions the inner intelligence of organisms[/b] who do their own designing. That is the ‘how’, starting at Chapter 2 of life. Nobody knows even if there is a why, if by that you mean something universal, and nobody knows how the process began.
> 
> The ID fellows, mostly Christian, some Jewish, all believe God is the designer, but don't ever print that under the ID umbrella. Talbott never answers the question of how did the bolded 'inner intelligence' appear? He openly states don't ask the question. That is fine with me and IDer's. We prefer to answer the question, because Talbott's evidence demands a designing mind to our way of thinking. We always pick the possibility that the intelligent information is implanted. It still comes down to deign or chance. No third way is possible.
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Talbott beautifully describes the wondrous mechanism of living beings, and then says we should stop thinking about causes and origins. just enjoy and appreciate what we see. But is he leading us to a point where he says lets look at how and why more deeply. ID'ers and I see the wall he puts up. I see your wall. It is still only chance or design. Talbott actually presents a beautiful set of essays in full support of design. That is why I have always presented his ideas. He supports my thoughts. I just don't have a wall in my thinking.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: Talbott clearly does NOT support your thoughts. Yes, he supports design, but ‘[i]to say that “natural selection did it” is just as much a refusal to investigate the actual life of organisms as to say “God did it.[/i]”’ You have a solid brick wall in your interpretation of Chapters 1 and 2 of life. Chapter 1 begins with an unknown and unknowable, eternal, sourceless and all-powerful conscious mind. You cannot see beyond that. Chapter 2 has that mind confined to a single purpose and a single, illogical means of fulfilling that purpose. You cannot see beyond that either.
> 
> I don't try to. I don't care if Talbott stops short as you do. That is why I offered him in this series of entries. Look in the mental mirror and you will see him. We IDer's see the metaphorical wall as yours.