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Message:

> > DAVID: (Wednesday) [i]I don't have 'perfect ideas', your twisted misinterpretation. [/i]
> > 
> > dhw: (Thursday) [i]What do you mean by “I have perfect ideas”...if you now say “I don’t have ‘perfect ideas’”?[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]The actual full quote: DAVID: "Total distortion. I have perfect ideas as to why God evolved humans in the time it took. that is history". The history is a perfect background for knowing what God did as I view Him in charge.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: We are not arguing about the history, but about what God did to produce the history (e.g. “preprogrammed or dabbled” versus “gave free rein”) and why (e.g. solely “in order to produce humans” – which engenders theories as to why he delayed, or alternatively that he had other purposes, e.g. to create an unpredictable bush). You have no idea why he would have delayed, so what is the subject of the perfect ideas you have but do not have?
> 
> I directly believe God is the engineer of evolution and designed all species. I don't need to know why God delayed, because that is exactly what He did as his decision. Your problem is you cannot accept how I believe in God. Of course my patterns of belief are incomprehensible to you and illogical by your reasoning. I  consider Him as much more than just humanly thinking  as we do. You are  approaching God with your human logic. I've said all along it is your problem you create for yourself, certainly not mine.
> >
> > dhw: … [i]you have agreed that your own theory requires the abandonment of human reason.[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]I have arrived at my thoughts by logically putting together the evidence I see. But I see no reason to delve into God's thinking about His choice of method. No 'abandonment', your distortion.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: Please explain what you meant when you said that your THEORY about your God’s choice of method (please don’t pretend you know that your choice was his choice) was not illogical “[b]if one does apply human reasoning to the actual history[/b]”.
> 
> Please reread the above statement of mine:
> 
> I directly believe God is the engineer of evolution and designed all species. I don't need to know why God delayed, because that is exactly what He did as his decision. Your problem is you cannot accept how I believe in God. Of course my patterns of belief are incomprehensible to you and illogical by your reasoning. I  consider Him as much more than just humanly thinking  as we do. You are  approaching God with your human logic. I've said all along it is your problem you create for yourself, certainly not mine.
> > 
> > dhw: [i]You have objected to the idea that your God might create an evolutionary process that would produce unpredictable results (what I have called the higgledy-piggledy bush of life). I have given you an example of your God creating something unpredictable (human free will), which shows that he is not averse to producing something unpredictable.[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]The process of producing physical forms should proceed into a specific direction if humans are to be evolved. I consider God as very purposeful. You don't. Consciousness with free will is only a human attribute. You are still at apples and oranges.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: If humans were the purpose of evolution, you are absolutely right: the process should have proceeded in a specific direction. But for 3.X billion years, it did not! Hence the illogicality of your theory. I have no doubt that your God would be very purposeful. I am challenging your interpretation of his purpose precisely because of your first sentence. I have proposed an alternative purpose: the unpredictable spectacle of evolution given free rein. You did not think your God would want this (you like to ”humanize” him as a control freak), so [b]I simply gave you an example of his willingness to give up control.
> [/b]
> 
> Totally illogicality. The definition of evolution is that it evolves OVER TIME. I cannot accept hour humanized God in the above bold. All your examples are human logic imaginations at work but that doesn't mean He develops His purposes as you might imagine. I view Him as entirely purposeful.