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Message:

> > dhw: [i]You keep telling us that his desire to create humans was his one and only purpose, and his method was to spend 3.5+ billion years not creating humans. You “accept” that he follows your own non-logic. And you still haven’t told me why you think the motive or purpose for doing something is not a driving force.[/i]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]I have accepted that God's purpose or motive was to evolve human beings. That is a driving force from my viewpoint.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: You have not “accepted” it, you believe it, but if it’s true, then of course that would be a driving force. But according to you, his purpose or motive in designing whale fins, cuttlefish camouflage and the monarch’s flight path was to enable them to [b]survive[/b] so life could go on for 3.5+ billion years until he could design the only thing he wanted to design. Whatever may be the purpose or motive for doing something is its driving force. Once again, if God exists, he is the driving force behind life and evolution, and his wish to enable organisms to [b]survive [/b]is the driving force behind what you believe to be the special designs that enable them to do so.
> 
> It seems you are understanding what I believe. It is not illogical.
> > 
> > dhw: […] [i]you persist in ignoring the point that I keep making over and over again: yes, if God exists he must have created life and evolution and in that sense he is the driving force. But the purpose of means of survival is to enable organisms to survive, so even if he designed every single one, their purpose was survival.[/i] […]
> > 
> > DAVID: [i]And you persist in not recognizing that evolution is a process that would grind to a halt unless the ability to survive is built into each successive level of new organisms.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: Of course I recognize that evolution would have ended if new organisms had not survived! How does that come to mean that the purpose or motive behind each individual evolutionary change was not survival? And how does that lead to your conclusion that the purpose or motive for change is not a driving force?
> 
> The driving force is God using evolution to create humans. Survival is simply a secondary requirement as you admit.