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> > 
> > DAVID: [i]Of course speciation is entirely unknown as a process. We all make judgments as to how it might proceed. Darwin's method of tiny progressive chance changes is obviously false. To make major body plan changes requires a complex plan before the changes can occur. Only a planning mind can do this. I've not changed my mind that it must be God.[/i]
> > 
> > dhw: In all our discussions on evolution, I have been putting on my theist’s hat, because I am challenging your hypothesis that your God either preprogrammed or dabbled every single species (broad sense), lifestyle and natural wonder extant and extinct throughout the history of life in order eventually to produce humans. We needn’t go over all the illogicalities yet again. My point here is that since the process is totally unknown, and nobody has ever observed speciation, you should not reject the hypothesis of a perhaps God-given AUTONOMOUS inventive mechanism (i.e. intelligence operating [b]without divine “guidance”[/b]), as you keep doing, on the grounds that the mechanism has not been found. Your 3.8-billion-year-old computer programme has not been found, and nobody has ever seen your God dabbling.
> 
> I feel you are talking around my argument but never addressing it. The complexity of living matter was not discussed in the above comment by you. I constantly present new studies into the complexity, and you generally ignore them. The key to my argument is COMPLEXITY. It cannot occur by chance. It requires planning, which means it occurs from mentation. This statement is not some wooly concept. It comes from our human experience. This is why I follow the concept of a universal consciousness with its mental capacity. That is how I visualize God. I have never seen your consciousness. I can only experience mine. I have faith you have one. I can have the same faith in God's. How God manages evolution is just guess work on my part and on your part. It fills much of our discussions, but it is totally beside the point. One must address the complexity of the living mechanisms, and it's source cannot be bottom up.