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> >  > dhw: Fair enough, but it seems your criterion for belief is what you can imagine. So can you in all honesty imagine your &#147;pure energy&#148; God preprogramming the very first cells with plans for eyes, kidneys, livers, lungs, spider silk, ant rafts  and all the rest of Nature&apos;s Wonders - every plan to be passed down through the billions of years and zillions of organisms, and to be carried out automatically when the time was right? Alternatively, can you imagine your God fiddling around with zillions of individual organisms to endow them with these different mechanisms?-As I have stated over and over, I don&apos;t know which of the two concepts of God is true. I can label my belief as theistic evolution, but that is just a label. I don&apos;t know the inner workings of a God-riven evolutionary process. As I have shown in the Nstures wonders topic life evolved some amazing life styles, so one conclusion is that evolving life is very inventive, and seemingly much more so than chance should allow. It is very difficult to imagine the tiny epigenetic steps, for example, to have a fungus take over an ant brain. Or a salmon figure out how to come back years later to the same tiny stream bed high in the Pacific Cascade mountain range or how Monarch butterflies migrate back and forth thousands of miles, through metamorphizing four generations of adults and returm each winter to the same forest glen. Darwin&apos;s imagination is much mightier than mine. His followers insist though a prcoess of random mutation and Natural selection all this could be created.