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> > Matt: ...[i]And even if a multiverse is inevitable, and may have had a beginning, it automatically means that chance is no longer a problem. Given that our universe is infinitely large, [b]I still think you can make the argument that every possible configuration of matter in the universe has been created multiple times, purely by natural law[/b]. Chance is a false bugaboo, especially the more you play with the total amount of matter we estimate the universe holds, and you add in the nature of "virtual particles" which was the singlehandedly best description of quantum mechanics I have ever read.[/i] >  > dhw: We have had this discussion before, but as I see it, David&apos;s own concept of God provides complete justification for Matt&apos;s statement (which I have put in bold above). You needn&apos;t bother with multiverses, string theory, the nature of nothing, the potential infinity of this universe, or the big bang! David and I have agreed that the first cause is eternal energy. David insists that it has always been conscious of itself, and I leave that option open. If energy is eternal, and is capable of transforming itself into matter, there is an eternity and hence an infinity of potential "configurations of matter". The eternal "First Cause" argument therefore works just as well for the atheist&apos;s faith in chance as it does for the theist&apos;s faith in God.-I do agree with dhw&apos;s statement. There is no way the something we have came from an absolute nothingness. We do not know if a virtual vacuum has always existed at that level of organization or pure energy without spacetime was the beginning.